Queensland Robotics: The future of Australian robotics
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Find the transcript of the podcast below:
Andrew
Welcome to Episode Five of Queensland robotics podcast
I’m here with Alan Bye and Shana Glover both from Imvelo. And so welcome, guys.
Alan
Hi, Andrew.
Sharna
Hello, Andrew.
Andrew
So, first question that, and I definitely know that there’s some people out there that, do you know this, but for some for a lot of others, and what is imvelo? all about? I’ll open that to either one of you to answer.
Alan
And I’ll kick off. And, you know, as we work in the resources sector, there are huge opportunities for productivity and safety improvements. And to achieve these, it requires a system approach across the value chain, and also is going to require partners to work with the resources sector to get the improvements delivered. And so imvelo is Zulu word for ecosystem. And so what we do is we bring those partners together. To work with resource companies to deliver value along the supply chain.
Andrew
Excellent. That’s great. Thank you. Now, I know both of you have been heavily involved in robotics and automation projects throughout many years, actually. And you’ve been extremely supportive of Queensland robotics in particular. And more recently, the robotics Australia group. Can you explain why and what is the importance to you guys?
Sharna
Yeah, I’ll pick that one up. Andrew being something obviously I am a mad keen advocate on robotics, particularly here in Queensland and Allen in the West. So the reason Imvelo is so keen on robotics is really are speaking, more broadly very interested in the promotion, the support the building of Australian technology companies. So that’s your I really keep focused for invalid, not everything is going to come from Australia, we know that. But we are really committed to doing what we can to actually build the Australian capability. As Alan mentioned, we’re an ecosystem company. So for us, it’s really important that we know who’s out there. And we do that as Australian capability. Because, you know, we want the kind of best in breed in a lot of different technology areas. And so robotics, we work in industries, mining, agriculture, oil and gas, space, forestry, all of these industries that we’re working in with clients. To Alan’s point, that transformation is robotics is such a critical enabler to that in all of these industries, so, so that’s why we’re really, you know, really supportive of the work in robotics. And when we look at the two groups that you mentioned, Andrew, so we’ve got the robotics Australia group which is only recently formed early this year to not for profit group. It is a national entity. And its focuses on advocacy for robotics as well as building a robotics industry for Australia because it’s not recognized as an industry today. And representing the robotics community, its network members, its companies and its research partners who you know who today don’t even know who each other are across Australia. And so the more we can do to actually get those guys working together, you know, the more Australia can back above, it’s above its weight, and then the Queensland robotics cluster, as you drew you and I stood up from the start a couple years ago, and you’re probably better to speak to the to the cluster model, based on you know, Andrew to look at clusters around the world but they’re proven in other countries to be the best mechanism to actually connect companies who are working on similar technologies, but have them work collectively on, you know, industry problems, and be able to, you know, create a bit of a, you know, a hotspot for talent. So it’s more a localization type model, which I think Australia needs to, you know, to really learn from other countries and start to adopt that model. And so, so hence, you know, we stood up the, the Queensland robotics class to do that.
Andrew
Excellent. We are definitely aligned on that. And it’s great to hear someone else to say the words, so thank you for that. It’s a related question. And this is probably in the, I guess, the current situation that we’re in, where both Australia and New Zealand are, you know, poised to come out of this, this crisis way ahead of everybody else. And so there’s a real opportunity with You know, just from that perspective, but you know, you’ve both explored the global markets you understand, you know, where some of the sources do some great robotic technology is, you know, what do you see is Australia’s opportunity on the global stage with regards to robotics now?
Sharna
You’re all all have a go at that one. Andrew would probably pick up a couple of robotics questions as we go about throw to Alan also for his views. But you know, for me, Australia has such an opportunity because of its agriculture and mining sectors, particularly you know, they are located in close proximity to each other in a lot of areas and they are fundamental GDP drivers for Australia. And as I mentioned before robotics has such you know, such a role to play in improving safety and production. In those in those industries, you’re mining is a big thing for Australia. People hear me say all the time people and machinery don’t mix. So how do we start to use robotics to make sure we remove people from the line of fire, and they certainly for all our industries improve productivity. So, to me, I see that as such an opportunity for Australia can actually improve our capability to build up the robotics industry, he we can service our own, you know, our own industries, but equally, you know, look to export those goods to other countries who probably might not have for the air of what I’m talking about is field robotics, as much, you know, as much industrial support as what we have for fulfilled robots.
Andrew
And a related question, I guess is it what do you say Australia’s key advantage or differentiator and is it around that field robotics sort of scope.
Sharna
Yeah, I think certainly, yeah, skilled robotics is a great opportunity for us and, you know, can be a differentiator. I think other countries, probably only Canada has that combination of agriculture and mining that can really, you know, create a real, you know, hotspot for capability that we have here. So, yeah, for me, that is a great advantage. But, you know, I don’t want to not speak to obviously robotics in the health sector, you know, modern medicine, you know, there’s so many others and Australia is betting above its weight in robotics. I don’t know, Alan, whether on any of those areas, whether you have anything you wanted to throw into the to the conversation.
Alan
Yeah, Sharna, I think the the advantage we have Andrew is the scale of our primary industry, here in Australia is huge. And so that’s the place to build a robotics team. service industry around and harden up the products and services in the real world. And then that can be commercialized globally to to other sectors. So it’s at that interface of industry, primary industry and robotics that I think that’s the advantage. But perhaps less so than the fundamental robotics area where other countries are way ahead of us. It’s in the application side.
Andrew
Yeah, that’s a really good point. Excellent. Thank you for that. That’s, you’re absolutely right. It’s in that application. And that kind of speaks to, you know, some of the opportunities that we have with regard to, you know, the development process, you know, having access to the testing and having access to customers that are willing to have a go and local environments, wide open spaces and the like. So that’s a really good point. In your opinion, what do you think we can do to fix accelerate manufacturer of robotic solutions. So picking up on that point around the application? And what do you think we can do to really accelerate that process?
Sharna
I’m Andrew, I think, you know, one of the things in Imvelo is working hard on uses a certain accountability of industry, you know, to get involved here. We’ve just spoke about that advantage for us in having, you know, these great industrial environments to deploy robotics develop the solution than and ruggedized them. So I think, you know, what we can do is certainly have industry Be prepared to step forward and be a little more ambitious, in the use of robotics and engage, you know, SMEs out into the field to be able to develop and test you know, the solution. So, I’d like to see us doing, doing more of that. I think in terms of manufacturing robotics here in a Australia, you’re speaking to a lot of SMEs, we definitely were great at start-ups here in Australia, we, you know, fund some start-ups, but we are not good. And this is not just in robotics, but more broadly, in taking those start-ups through on a journey of scale up, you know, and potentially through the export. So, I would really like to see our robotic system is further supported from our injection of funding, so that they can actually start to scale up and of course, when we’re talking field robot, there’s a certain amount of capital intensity in the manufacture side that they, you know, that doesn’t happen if they’ve got the software as well as the hardware. You know, I think, you know, we traditionally are quite good at how the software company which is less, you know, less capital intensive, so I think Australia needs to do more, you know, across it some venture capital, private equity and government involvement in funding. To grow in robotics,
Andrew
it’s quite topical. I was actually having conversation earlier today with a couple of members who are already engaging in style of discussion. But they’re all with providers offshore. They’re not with capital providers, VCs here in Australia. So absolutely. Yep. That’s happening.
Now with that, in one of the things that’s also quite topical is the concept and actually was a brought up on the recent manufacturing chapter for the Australian robotics roadmap. And that is the distinction between and producing a solution as opposed to actually providing a source. And so to your point, hang on before round one of opportunities is to do the application.
Be patient capability and working out what services and so providing, sir, as opposed to providing a solution. So do you think you can you see Australia being a major provider of a service?
Alan
Andrew, I think if you look at what ingredients would support that, now we’ve got very low population density, a huge geographical spread. We’ve got high value add Primary Industries. So those are ideal conditions for robots, particularly as a service, you know, to be able to come in and support where we’ve got, where we’re struggling to get the right skills in an area. Robots can complement people and the work that they work that they do, and I think there’s a bit of a binary view that we’re Robots replace people. I think that’s just not true; I think we’re going to see far more so that robots complement and support people to do their work. And that will be as a service. Because these primary industry businesses, it’s robotics is not a core business, they will contract companies to come in, provide those services to enable them to be more efficient. So I again, I think Australia has the ingredients here to do that more quickly than other parts of the world. And then scale our our services globally once we’ve hired and then here locally.
Andrew
And exactly and we’ve got some great examples like sweep arrow are already starting to deploy their capability in Africa and in other countries, and they’re doing so from here, they are running those operations from here. So that’s a really good point. Now, both of you are intensely involved in growing the space industry, here in Australia. What do you see the linkages with robotics and space?
Sharna
Um, yeah, I’ll I’ll pick up that one Andrew being as I’m on the leadership advisory of the Australian space agency, which is such a great opportunity for Imvelo to be looking at what are those opportunities for space to earth and earth to space. So, you know, that we get the technology exchange, and really, that’s Australia’s a small country, particularly playing in the in, in space in that space industry. So it’s really important that we get that connection between those things that really drive value, productivity, and that in our industries in Australia, and connecting them with space, so so robotics is certainly going to be a piece of piece of that.
For the space effort, I think it’ll be probably more niche. There’ll be certain areas that we play in robotics for space and other areas where those solutions will be sourced from other countries. I certainly think there’s a huge opportunity in satellite and Earth observation, a probably some of the biggest opportunities for leveraging the space worked, you know, events, Australian use of robotics, even a robot exterior, you know, he now producing industries like mining and agriculture today and not well enabled because of lack of connectivity. So, so I think, you know, we need to think about the space program in a broader essence than just outright robotics and space. But what can the space specific do to help robotics progress here in Australia?
Andrew
Excellent. Now, one thing is, you know, we’re seeing a lot of government support for the space program. You think they see this linkage between robotics and space?
Sharna
I think you know, I think things we need to continue to advocate for, you know, for the breadth of robotics so that they understand the connection and the opportunity really first strike on we spoke about manufacturing. Andrew, I think every time I think we speak about robotics and manufacturing, people think about the use of robot robots and robotic arms and that in a manufacturing plant, whereas what we’re talking about here is the opportunity to actually grow a new industry over particularly field robotics, the generation manufacturer of field robotics. So I think we often aren’t on the same page sometimes with government and the onus is on us through the QRC and the Robo Strike Group to improve our messaging, and really start to do the business case and of what that opportunity for Australia can look.
Andrew
Excellent. Now, we heard you mentioned about the funding that Alan, from your perspective, what do you see as some of the other major variants and growing a robotics industry here in Australia?
Alan
Andrew, I see this circular challenge, where on the industry side, there’s perhaps not enough awareness of the potential for robotics and the maturity of robotics solutions that could be applied. And then on the on the supplier side there, I also see a fair amount of solutions looking for problems. And so this conversation of being aware and also working on the right problems, I think will enable much more focused development and much better take up of robotics technologies into an into industrial contexts. And I think that conversation is not written Enough in Australia yet? That’s a really good point.
Andrew
And, you know, one of the things that we’ve definitely heard is that we’re, as an industry or as an evolving industry, were invisible. And so that awareness and in clarity around the, you know, what’s, what is that maturity? What is that capability? And what are we doing? What are some of the case studies? That is the narrative is actually really positive. It’s just that we’re not getting the narrative out there and exposed to a wider audience. So those in the industry, those who are participating, they see the benefits. They see the opportunities. They now have the global network of Australian nationals in, you know, some fairly influential and significant positions elsewhere around the world. So we’re definitely contributing, but it’s not Well known more broadly. So that’s a really good point sale. Now, one of the things that we’ve also seen is, you know, and this ties into, you know, both of your exposures with regards to linkages between industry and academia. You know, do you see any research gaps, or are there any research gaps that you’re aware of in the robotics field?
Alan
Okay, Andrew, I’ll pick this one up. I think one of the first challenges here is just being clear what problem we’re trying to solve. And is it a market problem? Is it an integration problem, or is there fundamental research required? And I think in the robotics space, the bulk of the challenges are in the market demand and in their integration. And yes, there are some research challenges, but I focused on that. Before, we have to also be clear whether we’ve got teams doing research or whether they are doing upskilling. And I think much of the pure fundamental robotics research is done internationally. And they mature and they’ve been working on it for a very long time. And I see quite a bit of work done here that’s classified as research, which really is people learning technologies and upskilling people around the potential which is an important task, we just shouldn’t call it research. And so, you know, that for me language is important and being clear on whether we’re actually assembling technologies versus really genuinely creating technologies. This would this helps in terms of understanding what am i funding? Will it build the right product for the performer for the markets solution? So that’s a long answer and just say that, yes, there are research gaps, but I don’t think we’re very mature in being explicit about what the research gaps is versus the development integration and marketing gaps.
Andrew
That’s a really good point. And so what do you think are some strategies to try and close some of those is to either, you know, broaden some of that work, or is it more in that engagement piece that you mentioned earlier? And about sort of trying to get everybody around the?
Alan
Look, Andrew, some facts that speak for themselves, you know, that the US 70% of their research is done by commercial companies and 30% by universities. And so, the correlation between the number of successful start-ups they have that are taken up by industry is far higher because we have the opposite. We have 70% of our research done by universities and 30% by commercial companies. And so effectively, you’re doing this research, often away from the problem, industrial environment, and therefore, it’s perhaps not well formed or there’s a long lag to get it through the TRL scale. So that shifting the balance of academic versus Industrial Research to me is one of the biggest issues for us.
Andrew
I’m very good point. And that’s a good segue into my next question. What do you see the role of accelerators and entrepreneurial ecosystems in the growth of their money?
Sharna
Yeah, I think, Andrew, I mean, certainly, you know, the programs is that you have certainly some good government programs for acceleration and development of our SMEs. So I think the Really, that the programs are really needed? And, you know, I think the robotics industry is very grateful to any of those programs that the government chooses to get behind this one just about to launch for Queensland, with the are certainly the government called out a heavy focus of, you know, robotics in that cohort that will start soon. So that that really helps companies, you know, they really get access to like mentoring, you know, they want to make the miners or meet agriculture, you know, meet farmers, you know, so they want to connect with people with the, with the problems. So, you know, I think that is one of the things that, you know, I still think this country doesn’t always get right you know, is, you know, the people with those good technologies or smart minds really want to connect with industry and its and its challenges. So, I think these type of programs and ecosystems are a great way for, you know, problems to be communicated so that we can be, you know, we can be solving the right the right challenges, as Alan said, rather than just, you know, suppose fundamental technology for technology’s sake. So I kind of think for me, you know, you know that it’s a little bit to that question that you had before around research gaps, I think I started really needs to look at where is the best opportunity for us to apply where, where’s the begin to town for us as a country, and, you know, know that and then focus our research efforts, you know, on that, so really play to we mean those areas. And I guess, you know, when we look at the work of the Australian robotics, I think that’s just an excellent piece of work done, you know, a couple of years ago and in the process of being updated moment to talk to that, and we need Australia to start to put more hands on that roadmap and decide You know, where are from the recommendations in the mind? Where do we want apply so that we can focus our research efforts, our SMEs and our industry on those on those opportunities?
Andrew
Yeah, absolutely. And actually one observe observation I’ve had with, with being involved in the roadmap work today it is that it’s actually become a more and there’s value in that alone. And so it’s been great reading process, it’s connected. A lot of people just made lots of number comments. I didn’t know there were so many people interested or involved in this in this top.
Sharna
Yep, absolutely.
Andrew
A great opportunity. So, but with regards to the accelerators and the entrepreneur ecosystems, the innovation hubs were saying popping up everywhere. I’m here talking to the precinct in Brisbane we’ve got next to me, I have got the XR hub. It’s about one and a number of other sort of capabilities bidding or interactions with them, or some of the things. Some of the I guess key ingredients for success for some of these things is always about is that engagement. So and actually expose that application. But real and always, especially post or as we come out of this crisis is trying to get that and get and get that participation happening so that we can, you know, you work through those marketing and business opportunity pieces in a much more intuitive and more accelerated manner. But what do you see making that happen?
Sharna
You I think you’ve called it an injury exactly where the issue is here strike is too fragmented. We’re out. Yeah, we are a small country with a small population. And it’s great that we have and we should have all of those different hubs and precincts and but, you know, I think what, what’s definitely for me still an issue is that we, you know, we almost need to, you know, take a good dose of humility and reach out to each other, even on the Ask the dumb questions, the things we don’t know, and work for these different great hubs to actually come together and work in a more collected fashion. Because I think what I’m generally seeing is still, you know, ongoing fragmentation. It’s just not heading in the right direction. And I think it can be confusing for people to understand how all these different parts of robotics You know, AI , how’s aI different? And how does that work in with robotics? And, you know, so I think we need to work together and simplify our messaging, if we’re going to bat above our weight for Australia.
Andrew
Exactly. Okay, one last question for both of you, and they’ll get each of you to answer. So Alan, I’ll ask if you could go first. So if you were to describe a desire, yeah. New normal for Australia, what would that be?
Alan
So under these emerging hubs, precincts and clusters are quite fragile, and there’s a diffusion of effort at the moment, the new normal for me would to would be that they scale in terms of people, companies, funding inflow, and really strengthen those clusters to be far more far more effective than they are today. And that we speed up the cycle of industry problems flowing through the clusters and spinning out successful service businesses. And so for me, that’s all absolutely possible. And we’re very close to being able to achieve it. So that new normal, it’s pretty exciting. Yeah, exactly.
Andrew
Thank you, Sharna.
Sharna
I mean, it’s hard not to say I mean, in the future there and we’re not far away from it. We see in Australia where we have a robotics industry that’s actually recognized as being an industry in its own right, as opposed to hinders you and I know it’s buried under you know, ag, mining and all these industries I’ve spoken about and they do good things, but you know, the opportunity for robotics is for it to be you know, truly be recognized so that it can, you know, can be put on steroids. really like to see more visibility for that industry and increased funding so that we really honestly believe it’s such a competitive advantage in that area, particularly in field robotics that we have to walk through that door. And it’s part of our, you know, securing sovereign capability and supply chain security as well. You know, it definitely, you know, if you think of an autonomous world, with a lot of robotics happening, if we have another pandemic, Andrew, we’re relying on the overseas autonomy or maintenance of autonomous systems. Well, I’m sad to say that the autonomy would stop. So you know, so I kind of think you know, it is important for our own Australian capability here.
Andrew
Absolutely. Totally agree. Okay, while we’re really appreciative of your time, Alan, it’s been an absolute pleasure to have you online and thank you so much, and sharna likewise, and look forward to getting to that new normal and working together and improving the opposition and growing a robotic system. Thanks, guys.
Alan
Thanks very much.
Sharna
Bye.
Andrew
You’ve been listening to episode five of the Queensland robotics podcast series. So for further podcasts and information about Queensland robotics, please see https://queenslandfieldrobotics.com/ and tune in for subsequent episodes.
This podcast originally was posted on the Queensland robotics cluster website.