Artificial intelligence with Imvelo CEO Sharna Glover
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Announcement:
Welcome to spark your fire podcast sparking your interest in Australian property and finance. Now here’s your hosts, jazz and David. But before that, let’s listen to the quote of the day.
Quote of the Day:
Look, we’re going to make mistakes. You got to own them. Then you got to make amends. And then you got to move on. Guilt and regret kills many a man before their time. So, turn the page, get off the ride. You are the author of the book of your life. Turn that page.
Jazz
Welcome to the show. Once again. We have got a very special guests on the show today. This space is personally close to mine. A little bit which is technology and our guest today works in that space. She is the CEO of a company called Imvelo. And that deals in the AI space AI and robotics. Shanna, welcome to the show.
Sharna
Thank you very much jazz for that warm welcome.
Jazz
And as always got my wonderful co-host with me David was so keen to join the party this time to the minute I told him that it’s AI he jumped off the chairs.
David
They will miss the party on this one, mate. Thanks for your invite.
Jazz
So this is this is this is going to be very interesting one look, Sharna, I really do appreciate for you to jump on and share your time with us. Just quickly on your background a little bit. You’re a member of a space industry forum. You are CEO of Imvelo.ai, which is what we’re going to discuss a little bit today and you’re a board member of University of Queensland chemical engineering. Correct. And in the past you have worked as a program director at bhp tell us about embellish a little bit Sharla
Sharna
Yeah, just a mean so Imvelo which for the listeners have often people ask me where the name come from is Zulu for ecosystem. So what in Imvelo was doing is working on what’s called value chain automation. So, in all of these industries, particularly the industries on from mining, forestry, agriculture, the supply chains are actually not operating in an integrated fashion today so what that means, for instance, in mining is that you might be drilling blast, you might be extracting the oil, you might be tracking the oil and then processing all and then sending it through your logistics chain. And all of those processes today are actually operating. Not probably as efficiently and as productively as I can so what Imvelo is focused on is the use of AI and robotics. So, we’re heavily involved in automation. And how does automation combine with data analytics actually be able to create an integrated, which is why we call it a value chain, it kind of moves from being a supply chain into truly being a value chain that can be responsive to you know, market conditions and customer, you know, customer demand. So, yeah, so that’s the that’s the space that in Imvelo is working in. So yeah, and Imvelo, we started up around middle of last year. Prior to that I’ve got about a 20 years history, as you said in bhp. And I’m a co-founder of Imvelo, together with my business partner, Alan Bye, who’s our who’s based in Perth.
Jazz
Right. Okay. There’s a lot of talk Sharna, in the ai pace that it poses. There’s obviously some opportunities, but at the same time, there are some threats that it poses. Right, you are working in this space actively. How do you see some of that stuff panning out in the future?
Sharna
Yeah, so I think many of you can tell I’m obviously a fairly
Jazz
person who’s probably more a half glass full type person. So so I don’t, you know, tend to focus so much on that on the negatives of the technology, but like, like all things in life and technologies in the wrong hands, these things can, yeah, it can be problematic, no different to nuclear weapons and those sort of things. But, I think the opportunity very much that’s coming from, you know, from AI and robotics is really it’s all about people in the workforce. I have a real people orientated approach in the way I deliver projects. So so what we’re trying to do is use the technology so that people are not working on transactional type work anymore. I mean, there’s a lot of work as you can imagine. in forestry and mining, that’s very laborious. For instance, driving a truck, if you drove a truck a mining, you drive the same route, you do that, you know, 50 times a day you do it every shift, it would have to be, I think, one of the most boring jobs. So a lot of the things we’re doing in artificial intelligence is removing that type of transactional work, but also has a benefit of keeping people safer. So, big equipment and people don’t mix. You know, and we need to actually get people out of the way of being, you know, working in big equipment. It’s how, you know, industries like forestry and Ag and mining we Yeah, sadly, we kill people, you know, each year in heavier equipment. So for me the opportunity far outweighs the risk and that we can, you know, basically get people out of boring jobs, make them safer, but it’s not about less people in the workforce. Yeah, AI and robotics often gets a bit of a bad rap. that people think that it’s, um, you know, it’s replacing jobs and, you know, the takeover of the robots and I won’t have a job anymore. And it’s, it’s absolutely the opposite. in our, in our deployments of AI and robotics, we find we’re generating lots more jobs than we’re actually taking away. Because if you think about the people in the backdrops who are generating the software, making the hardware and maintaining the solutions, you know, and then optimizing the process, because you’ve got a lot more ability to do that. You know, there’s actually a lot more people that we have put into into a business and we actually take care so yeah, you know, as I said, there’s always going to be people jazz who use technology for the worst, but I think, absolutely, it’s a it’s a better thing for society and certainly for people in the workplace.
Also, when I look at my kids like and then look at what’s happening in AI, when my kids are only six and three, right and as they grow up, I try and figure out what’s the world going to look like for them? Right? What kind of training do they need for this? I mean, what some skill sets are required or even for an old horse like me. That’s all
David
You look younger without the beard, let’s put it that way.
Jazz
But Jokes apart on a serious note, I mean, what sort of things they should be preparing themselves for, in terms of the skill sets and all to to embrace this new technology and work in this place? Basically.
Sharna
It’s such a good question jazz because I think what most people revert to when they answer that question is, you know, you know, it goes without saying that, you know, people are going to need a larger digital skill set than than what they’ve had in the past. And I think all of us certainly you know, I’m in my mid 40’s, I you know, these things even you know, neutered tomorrow. My you know, I didn’t grow up with you know, the technologies that are there today. So we all have to be learning on the job we need to have an inquiring mind to actually get those digital skills but I’m kind of have the background that it really you can go into any type of background degree or training. And that’s, that’s good. Obviously this Yeah, there’s different types of skills and better coming through more in robotics and AI that you can do but, but what’s more important, I think, is your ability to actually work in teams, you know, in the workplace and to be able to understand your value proposition because we’re certainly going to move to more of a gig, you know, a gig economy, not probably as much like me being in bhp for 20 years, and I worked with people who’d worked their entire life in bhp, I think those days are gone. So I think it’s really important for the young people to understand that that Value Proposition they’ve got, but also be able to have that social skills to be able to be able to work confidently and inclusively, you know, in in diverse teams, because that’s, you know, that’s really, you know, that’s really where the world is, is going, I think for our for our young people. And I guess the other thing I can say Jazz it’s not all about doing high, high end degrees. That’s absolutely good. And we need we need people doing those. But equally, when you look at the areas of you know, these industries pictures are on my banner here for Invesco, you know, the agriculture in the forestry. These robots don’t work in the field without being maintained. And so there’s a huge requirement for people of trades backgrounds, who can maintain those solutions, and we tend to find they’re people who have usually often they’ve done some sort of electric Cool background because they’re able to maintain the connectivity, you know, the wireless networks, you know, the actual equipment on the machine so, so equally, you know, people should not think they all have to go off and do a degree. It’s really also about about being able to have tried, that is useful to be able to maintain some of these higher end solutions to sounds like the future is still good for them.
Jazz
I don’t need to worry too much about it. Now, I know, I’m still gonna play in this world jazz.
How does this work? I know you you have been working along with David on some of the AI stuff in the property space. Right. And we’ll touch on that as well. But before that, how does this help reshape the smart cities, smart cities and the property development to some extent, right. So what what is the future cities look like? In terms of if the AI is fully up and operational in 10 to 15 years and actually, I I’m keen to hear what sort of timeframe we are talking here where we see the AI to be mainstream, or commercial, fully commercialized kind of thing.
Sharna
Yeah, so I think smart cities is such an interesting area and Australia is probably not tackling this as well as, you know, our overseas counterparts, particularly in Europe. There’s quite a few Coleman lighthouses or test beds, you know, in certain cities around the, around the world, they’re doing them in the Netherlands in Italy, lots of places are doing them. So, you know, sort of smart city is really a, you know, one of those cities that is, you know, obviously, well connected, operates using mobility solutions or you know, autonomous vehicles, but it also has smart infrastructure, so that everything is connected and talking to each other. Because as I said, that’s, you know, an autonomous car can can drive around in its best state, if it actually does the infrastructure doesn’t Move, you know be at certain signposts and those things can actually be embedded we found Wi Fi and actually be talking to mobile equipment or mobile cars that are going around. So that’s really the the definition of a, you know, for me, anyway, have a smart, smart city. And like everything, it has to serve a purpose around what, you know what people want in a smart city, you know, but only came about gender demand. You know, I think we can all sit and hypothesize technically about what these things could be, but it’s usually the man that will shape and shape them in the future. I think for time frames for smart cities, I still think we are a fair way away, actually, mainly not so much because of the technology, but obviously, there’s quite a lot of issues around autonomous vehicles around insurance liability and and ethics. You know, which comes back to your IOD question, you know, really around, you know, I feel If there’s going to have to be, you know, some sort of collision, that obviously autonomous vehicles can even avoid how to the autonomous vehicles negotiate to work out who comes out worse? You know, is it the car with the three kids or is it the car with the two older people, grandparents or do not remain? So there’s many ethics issues that underpin you know, underpin the technology but also I think insurance and that so I kind of think I mean, certainly they’re progressing these in overseas I think we’re kind of more in that 10 year time frame for for smart cities. I know hotel she’s doing quite a lot in Greater Western Sydney. When I said Australia’s during March that wasn’t very fair, but they’re only just kicking off. But you know, Greater Western Sydney and if the brand new airport gets off that whole areas of focus, New South Wales is trying to draw the Smart Cities approach there. But you know, I’m not so much an expert in smart cities. folks in society, what I’m so passionate about is how do we accelerate that journey? particularly here in Australia, we have such a unique opportunity because of our agriculture and mining industry. The challenge a little bit about smart cities is, you know, those those those things I flagged, when you move into mining as an example, you’re in a controlled environment. So you don’t have a mother pushing a pram, in front of traffic law in front of you in front of a crossing in front of an autonomous vehicle. So it’s a very controlled environment, and really funny. They’re the best opportunity for us to accelerate a smart cities concept, because as I said, at the moment, the industry is just driving around automated trucks, which you know, is good, it’s good from a safety perspective. But really what we need to move to is how do I autonomously control the morning mission? Because that’s really what it’s about. It’s not about that. There’s a truck move around automated, that’s, you know, that’s kind of pretty cool. But it’s actually how do I extract the oil and send it to the right downstream process or the waste? You know and do that smart and efficiently. So, you know, so I think there’s such an opportunity for mining and ag to become, you know, these test beds for a smart city and you can actually start to build up the autonomy as well as the decision automation, you know, across the tall kind of big brain, you know, taught aspects, you can actually build that up in that environment. And it would create a lot of acceleration of the technology back into in the smart cities. So, yeah, it’s an area I’m pretty, pretty passionate that we keep driving that conversation and what I say as an advantage for you know, here in Australia,
Jazz
If I was to draw three dots, one for the AI and one for the IoT, and one for the blockchain. I honestly Try and think of how these three can be connected together because they are going to get connected there is going to be connected, right? So through IoT AI and money without money, it’s nothing moves. It’s that somehow someway, blockchain is going to come in that space. Right? Do you have any thoughts on how this? Or do you see this getting connected in the future? Or it’s still pretty early and unclear kind of thing?
Sharna
Yeah, well, as I said, I think a lot of what I’ve been talking about is definitely that connection of AI into IoT. So as I said, if you’re going to use basically near smart equipment, you know, and AI at the age of equipment, then you connect that into an IoT platform, which allows you to start to control the submission. You know, the equipment can talk to each other at a transactional level, with smarts at the edge, but the IoT is essentially where you can actually start to optimize and have more real time response to the pool of demand in whatever process you are talking about. But I think you’re exactly right jazz, you know, I’m doing, we’re doing quite a lot of work at the moment for a big major poll. And these things are not a not connected. And this is kind of what in imvelo is most interested in is accelerating the integration of these, these wonderful technologies, because the technologies themselves are actually quite advanced. But there’s been very little progress on integrating them. And I guess, you know, one of the reasons for that there has been some impediment, it’s a little bit around the challenges, you know, all the technologies and it’s really around what’s called Open interoperability. You probably might hear those terms if you work around technology enough. And that’s saying that you know, the reason they aren’t the integrated side is because we have too many closed proprietary solutions coming out from from vendors, or our VMs, which is the original equipment manufacturers. They locking down the environment by not developing technology. And they lock it down and do not allow the technology. Yeah, they’re not supporting API’s at the interfaces for their technology to interface into someone else’s technology. And they’re also locking down data flow. So they’re not allowing anyone else but often themselves to own the data. Even though you might have bought a piece of equipment, you don’t die on the data and you’ve got to buy the data back the stuffs just really silly. I know it might be a money model for them. But what we need is data flowing freely from the sensors on the equipment, you know, right up into the IoT, the IoT space. And I guess I’m not I’m not as much an expert on the financial market. So I’ll leave that to you to you guys as experts, but blockchain certainly one of the biggest challenges for the for those technologies, cyber security. So huge challenge you would hear about it, you know, a lot these days, I mean, even zoom, you know, was was getting hacked into, you know, when it was operating particularly through COVID as a new green, I guess platform. So cybersecurity is a big challenge. And if you think about mining or agriculture or autonomous vehicles in a smart city, it poses a big cyber security threat when you talk about malicious intent with AI, that’s where it will come from. It will be people who hack the system, and they want to drive your 300 ton mining truck or trucks, you know, on your on your behalf. So that’s that’s a real problem. And really, I’m not an expert near but certainly I know, blockchain in satellite communication. So obviously, we’re using satellite comms now, particularly in these rural areas to create much better connectivity, which was also a challenge for the industry for quite a while but satellite coverage now is He’s, you know, fixing that. But I know they’re applying blockchain as early r&d for blockchain on satellites, because essentially, that will allow you to, you know, to a degree, chop up your message, you know, and not it won’t be so easy for people to, to hack into a, you know, into your autonomous equipment. And then the other place I think, for blockchain is responsible mining. There’s a lot of use of blockchain starting to come to ensure that when mineral resources have been extracted, it has been done responsibly, you know, not with the use of obviously, we have slavery and, and they sort of thing so I know that that’s another use.
Jazz
Yeah, it’s, uh, I think you made a very important point over there, which was the openness of the system. So rather than being closed ended systems, it’s all gonna be open ended systems. And that’s what to some extent, blockchain is doing as well, which is open source code. Anyone can go In and audit it it’s got its own challenges without a doubt
David
bias oil listeners, I guess, is there a like, I guess, Shana, would you be able to explain to our listeners what IoT is for those people who’s not familiar the Internet of Things?
Sharna
Yeah. So really, it’s around connecting, you’re connecting devices or connecting equipment, you know, into a, you know, into an integrated, you know, landscape. I think people, your home will soon be be an IoT it is, you know, you’re exactly right, David, a term that’s kind of kind of bandied around. I don’t use it a lot in, in mining, we tend to talk more about this, you know, obviously, pulling, being able to pull data from many places, and obviously, there’s so much more data coming off, equipment and everything. Now, man, if you’ve got an autonomous truck, the amount of data that comes off is mind blowing off all the sensors. So it’s been able to pull that data up and actually be able to turn data into To knowledge into insights, you know, for me, that’s kind of what IoT really means. Because what you’ve got is you’ve got people who are trying to run a manufacturing plant or a plantation field or your mom. And so that, you know, they need to work, I guess in that IoT space, but be able to be provided with, essentially, you know, key flags that things are an issue and they can actually take action on those. So I always bring it back to the, to the people, not so much about just just the technology.
David
It’s great explanation.
Jazz
Thank you. Moving on to the next one you guys have been working with, I think bluegum property, doing some project, some AI projects in that space. really keen to understand how is AI being used in the property space in the property development space, if we can touch on that a little bit?
Sharna
Yes, sure. Jazz. I mean, I wouldn’t profess it as being used to nowhere near as much as it could be? So blue gum property is that is the business that my, my husband David owns. So we have this wonderful, interesting household, you know, of a person who is CEO of a, you know, an automation robotics company in, in many working in many industries because I do work in all those industries. I mentioned, I don’t even know I have a mining background. I’m working in all those industries now because the technology transcends actually all of those, those spaces. But so the blue gum property portfolio is really looking at, I guess, how do we actually look at developments, property developments and the use of that land in ways that can support the needs of, you know, different, different as far as requirements of people. So, you know, obviously there’s a lot of people out there who are aged communities, certainly when you look at them, smart cities that are forming in Europe, they actually are built on the back of more aged communities. It’s actually where they are creating the and developing the technology because you have a ecosystem there of you’re creating some housing, but you also can start putting the Yeah, the smart city, the autonomous middle buses into that because again, it’s a little bit closed environment like Amman, where you kind of can control the environment and go faster with the development of the technology. So I’m really quite passionate about Australia, in its property development working out for some of these opportunities for the disabled living or the age living, how do we actually start to create you know, these, these properties that more suit the needs and of what people require, they may not drive, they may have disability issues, you know, within their own gated you know, kind of property divide meant I can hop on autonomous bus you know, go down to the RGA go to their doctor, you know that they have some, you know, usually people with disabilities won’t travel as wide and far. But I do think there’s an opportunity for property development and councils and town planning to really actually start thinking about mobility solutions particularly for for people in that area. So, Bluegum, we have a large amount of property up at the Caboolture area that we’ve done. David’s done a lot of series of option contracts on it’s a significant, you know, significant amount of land now up there, it’s very close to the train station. It is all flat. It would be a wonderful precinct for you know, a little smart city for either disabled or aged you know, I just living so yeah, they’re the sort of things that interestingly in our house, so we we get to talk about these things. Cuz, you know, I guess we bring some some experience and skills from both both ends of that.
Yeah, we’re not some of the obvious challenges that you’re seeing Sharna in that space.
Sharna
I think as it suggests, I’ve touched on a few of them with the the opening interoperability and almost the speed and appetite or risk taking that industries are showing to be innovative. You know, and particularly here in Australia, it does disappoint me. I spent the last several years in my role with bhp based in Arizona developing autonomous equipment that is open interoperable across all different manufacturers. And you know, and and I loved my time over there because the US environment Many so entrepreneurial and and industry is prepared to take some risk and try technology. So that’s kind of I think, a key challenge here in Australia is that we, you know, we have a risk of being left behind if we if we don’t start to take a few more risks.
Jazz
But just, I, I’ve thought of that a few times as well. And I completely agree on that, like the entrepreneurship that you see in US compared to here. I mean, yes, much lesser population over here. But still, relatively there’s a lot of talk that happens about property and less about entrepreneurship in this country. Right. But what can be done to improve it, especially with the new youngsters that are coming into the industry? What What does what needs to be done?
Sharna
Yeah, wasn’t said I think, I think to a degree is a little bit of responsibility and us as parents, you know, I have I have three kids. And so it’s you know, it’s the probably one of the most important things you do is shaping your child’s early learning experience, ease your role as a parent and having that, I guess, entrepreneurial spirit spirit. And I know not everybody is out there starting up their own business. And I’m not saying that should be the case. But even in the way that we are supposed to talk about our maybe our job if we’re working for, you know, for an enterprise, you know, how do we suppose give that leadership shadow to our children around the things that we had to do in our workplace and can do to drive change, you know, and create opportunity for this country? So yeah, I’m kind of kind of pretty keen on parents stepping up a little more. You know, because I do think I do think some of the buck does stop there. But equally I think the government has been missing in action om mu opnion. I’m a big fan of Australia. And you can tell about I think a bit missing in action around technology. Australia has focused on its mineral resource, wealth, agricultural wealth and tourism. And because we haven’t got a manufacturing heartland anymore, we we lost it in steel manufacturing, car manufacturing, and actually innovation and it correlates any country, if you look at their manufacturing output, innovation correlates with that. And we’ve lost that. So I think and I think they’re, you know, it’s job from 30% of GDP to 5% rate of pay over the last 30 years for Australia, in our manufacturing, and that’s shocking. And so essentially our innovation and entrepreneurial spirit correlates with that. 30% to 5%. Drop, Jazz.
Jazz
I think the other thing is the need to teach. Design is just my opinion and I could be completely wrong is it needs to be taught in school. Apologies that it’s okay to fail. It’s when when your people are scared of the idea, just go and try if pan fail doesn’t it’s not the end of the world at a certain age it’s it’s pretty good to experiment and try different things kind of thing to see what comes up.
David
Don’t forget our education system is built on a basic you tried to educate he tried to produce workers for the society. That’s how it’s currently being structured, though it’s not being set up the way to build more entrepreneurs is what you said. That’s why there’s a lot more, I guess, entrepreneurial courses that’s beyond the school education system, currently in place, right? Because I mean, at the end of the day, society needs these people to produce as workers, you know, to be able to produce outcomes and results in GDP. So that’s why that’s how it’s changing systems being done today. But as you said, jazz I think there needs to be a transformation or some sort. Yeah. as we as we move into the new age of AI, or co working with AI improvements
Jazz
I think Covid is going to make countries realize a lot anyways in terms of heavily relying on one country like China or whatever currently, it’s not really the safest and the best approach. So I think that will change things quite a lot like pharmaceuticals. I think you and I were discussing at one point 90% of a fault 95% of pharmaceuticals, some stupid number comes from China. So just relying on medicine for one country that’s scary. That’s
Sharna
That is exactly right Jazz and you know, I think suffering capability and supply chain security is absolutely the two most things that have come up from COVID and probably no one’s really thought of a lot in in a lot of countries although I do think prior to these certainly America obviously had some issues with China and I think they were starting to recognize you know, that they needed to sort their supply chain security, but AI and robotics is Case in point, yeah, we at the moment as Australia are importing all of our capability from the US, and the ability to maintain them from the US. And if we do not build our own capability when you’re talking about a smart city will all of a sudden, your autonomous vehicle, if we go through another type of pandemic moment, you know, it stops we won’t be able to maintain it, you’ll need something to fix it and we won’t have our own capability in that more, you know, new AI or digital world So, so it’s one of the things I’ve been driving with the government’s here in Australia a lot is that we have to build, you know, our own capabilities, you know, particularly in those areas that underpin major industries like forestry, mining and ag field robotics is you know, something that we have to have local capability for, or at a point, I mean that those industries kept going this time around because I actually To tell the truth, they’re not very advanced with technology, but they are quickly accelerating into you know, advanced Technology and sorry, in 10 years’ time, if we don’t have that, you know, cell phone capability, then we actually won’t say them helping us out at the hole of, you know, financial crisis stock, we, you know, they really have been our backstop a little bit through the covert but that might not be the case in the future if we don’t build our own technology capability here.
Jazz
Before we jump into some of the other stuff, what else in the AI space can we touch on that will be helpful for investors as well? who are trying to invest their money because when we started this podcast was just purely property, we branched out into some of the other asset classes and now some of the advanced technologies as well. To me innovation is an asset class in itself. You invest in innovation and start-ups and you get your results if the company does not right. For in men from an investor’s perspective, what should they be seeking out for? If they are looking for all opportunities to create this entrepreneurial culture where they can actually go and invest some of the money in these companies but what sort of things they should be on the hunt for looking at in looking at these companies. So, these AI companies
Sharna
I think it’s Jazz one thing that you’re good now is Australia actually you guys have probably more the expert Mr. may not know the ASX now has a ticker for Australian technology. It’s called a tick. I joined WebEx the other day learning about it tick. So, you know, I strongly encourage investors you know, to also consider investing in your, you know, in Australian capability for technology. As I said, if you if you want this company to be fruitful in the future, then certainly investing in that portfolio is a good thing to do. And then probably the only other I’m a very practical person jazz and so, you know, when I tie keeping technologies for me, it’s as much about you know, track record for deployment, you know, and as you said, it doesn’t even have to work. I just want to see companies that are actually out there with some experience that they’re working on industry problems with their technology, a lot of technology companies might look really sexy. And frankly, the share price might go up really fast, you know, at the start, but if there’s no demand, they’re not solving a problem, you know, in society, which clearly zoom showed in COVID. But these other technologies for industry, if they’re not solving a, you know, forestry or agricultural problem today, you know, so you want to see them actually have relationships, partnerships. You know, I can’t emphasize the word partnerships enough, particularly if they’re start-ups and SMEs, they need to be, you know, it’d be one of the first things I’d be looking for is what industries and what companies like partnering with, because that’s really the only way that they’re going to be Guess recognizing there our technology and really testing it out?
Jazz
That’s really good. David, you got any more questions in the space buddy?
Sharna, anything you want to add, from my perspective that working in that space actively
Sharna
is interesting, or probably just, I’m a big fan of diversity and inclusion. And I think what people must remember is that one talk of AI is called machine learning. And there’s people who are experts in this, which isn’t made. But when you think about some of these things, I mean, machine learning is an approach to you know, it’s used in autonomous vehicles as another way to actually emulate some of the behaviours and ways that people the brain is an amazing thing. And so there’s things that you can actually code and then there’s actually things that actually a too hard to code and machine learning is being used to, to build that capability into machines based on based on people and how good the brain is. But you have to remember with machine learning is if we don’t have a diverse workforce. And I’m not just talking gender here I’m talking you know, ethnicity, experience I age, then machine learning or file because it will be only learning from one type of person in the workplace. So, so I always try and keep these issues of diversity and inclusion, front and centre for people not only because it makes a great place to work, you know, for where we all are, but equally, the technology will have its flaws if we don’t continue to pursue, pursue diversity.
Jazz
It’s also really good. Let’s switch gears a little bit. You are a member of space or you’re a member of space industry forum.
Sharna
Yes.
Jazz
Give us a little bit of insight of what happens in that space before I ask any of the questions.
Sharna
Here we go.
Jazz
Do you guys talk about we found this alien today, but there was a Wednesday, we’re going to keep it secret otherwise people will go
Sharna
Yeah, so um, so the Australian space agency is fairly new. Thankfully Australia recognized we have great capability in the work we do in space, but it was very fragmented. So hence they built the Australian space agency only probably less than two years ago. And I’m an industry advisory member of that group. And really, I don’t get involved in the high end technical things that will obviously see us you know, be able to launch a mission to Mars as much but what we’re trying to do is it’s a little bit like me talking about your mining being, I guess, a smart city pilot. So, what we’re trying to do is connect technologies that are here on earth with those challenges that equally will be experienced in space. So, we talk about space to earth and Earth, the space. Space is obviously doing a lot in connectivity, communications. That’s a gap for countries like Australia and Canada. And anyway, that’s very rural. So, they bring a lot of the connectivity improvements and lowering of costs, which is also a big barrier around connectivity for some of these industries. So, they bring that to us. And then what we’re looking at in on earth is what are the things that we’re doing that we can accelerate those technologies to improve space missions. So things like remote operation centres, asset management, doing that remotely using, you know, robotics? And they think because obviously, when you’re out in space, you’re going to be using a hell of a lot of robotics to actually maintain spice stations and things like that. So yeah, so it’s really a partnership and in exchange and acceleration of technologies between the space and the earth programs at work.
Jazz
Do you see us as humans branching out to other planets and actually creating life over there?
Sharna
OK, Well as I said I am a miner from way back so I kind of hoping to find other life forms out there Jazz, but we certainly be working our agreements with them cause they will own that land and we will want to mine that sometime in the future so certainly when we come across, and we manage well with good antics to mine their asteroids because certainly that is an area that could be a little way off but there is a lot of focus on acquiring resources in space
Jazz
You are obviously a believer in Aliens, now we don’t even have to ask that question
Sharna
Yah yeah, I am believer. You can’t be in a space agency and not….
Jazz
Another related question: Are they smarter than us you think
Sharna:
I think they have to be; they tend to avoid us. As You know, we haven’t been able to engage with them as much as we would like so far so they have been very smart and work out a way to avoid us.
Jazz
Do you think they actually been calling us?
Sharna
No, No I don’t think so. And I think no one will control us. People worry about AI but I think that Aliens must be very good in music and arts. As while AI progresses it actually won’t matter: everyone will be as smart as each other when that chip is implanted in your brain, and it is all about music and art. I think aliens have worked that out and will be wonderful musicians.
Jazz:
Technology is available in abundance and we can tell with the basic growth that we have seen in the last 10-15-20 years or whatever timeframe is fine. Do you see it causing deflation down the line instead of inflation. Because everything will be technology based as well is it AI or whatever else right? That means going down the path of deflation not inflation given its availability in abundance.
Sharna
Well I think so Jazz and well I think the world Jazz as you said through Covid will start to reach a more uniform platform kind of connectedness that you know at the moment you can have some countries are in deflation some in inflation , one will have to think that with technology increasing that will also level out over all the economies into deflation.
Jazz
Cryptocurrency: are you a fan?
Sharna
I am going to go with is a bit of a fad. What do you think?
Jazz
Oh well I would not go into the fad area. I think there are a lot of scammy projects in this space, but the legit ones are going to change the financial world forever, not now but in the not so distant future 10 to 15 years. So it is going change the shape of finance. And that is going to happen, and that sort of relates back to one of the points the you mentioned before: which is the openness of the systems, and finance world is a very closed world. This is all open source, as we move over to the world of AI and IOT it naturally going to happen. At this point it is more of a speculative asset class, but it is going to change. Over time. Probably in the space of about 5 years on I would say perception will change completely. And if you look at the people who work in this space: they are some of the smartest minds, It his a hive of people, they know their stuff. If you look at Vitalik who is the founder of Ethereum, one of the cryptocurrencies, is 19 years old. The guy is not a scammer, there are people who are super smart who are changing the finance world and making it better. It is just too early I think so people don’t yet fully understand it I think.
Sharna
Yeah, I think you are right. And I think with a lot of technology it is about demystifying so that the average person can understand how these technologies can be applied to their world or to the industry they are working in. I find that a lot of my job is to translate and simplify technologies especially for board and executive consumption because yeah it is easy to be the technical guru in the room but if you can’t translate it onto a simple sense and help people to understand. In these industries it is very simple it is about safety, cost and productivity. So if I can’t describe how my technology is going to influence one or all of those you know I haven’t done a very good job at translating.
Jazz
Before we round this up Sharna, last questions that I have: 3 things you want to be remembered for
Sharna
I would like to be remembered for my legacy of creating a Robotics Australia group which I have actually just done and in a feat with others to represent the Australian robotics industry and it’s advocacy
Jazz
Sorry to cut you, but if you find a way to implant it into humans to make them super smart, take me as the first one.
Sharna
Ha, I will.
Jazz
My brain function is really slow, so I need to speed it up a little bit
Sharna
Ha, I will do Jazz put you on the top of our list. I ‘d like to be remembered as a good mentor and developer of other. That is something is I find really important. I spent a lot of time mentoring people professionally as career development as well as personally.
And the third thing I would like to be remembered for is having a beautiful live and experience, enjoy the Journey. And all it s ups and downs. I was diagnosed with one of the worst forms of breast cancer in my late thirties, and I Guess that was for me one of the things that really made me realise its about the journey. People really have to enjoy that and that is about downs and ups.
Jazz
Awesome, really appreciate your time, David anything else to add?
David
No I think that’s a good wrap.
Jazz
Sharna I really enjoyed the conversation, as you progress through this journey, please I would really be really keen to know what is cooking and implant the chip when you get a chance.
Sharna
You are welcome any time in the Imvelo kitchen